Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." 

...Deputy Peadar Tóibín - There is a lack of recognition of the victimhood of the child in this Bill. We are discussing situations where children are given drugs in their schoolbags to be intercepted on their way to school. We are discussing situations where drugs are being pushed on children to get them addicted and those children are then being forced to get involved in crime to pay for the drugs and to work for their dealers. In my reading of it, the Bill would lead to a situation where vulnerable children were required to testify against hardened criminals or, in some cases, their own parents, which would be very difficult for children and could put them in danger. Obviously, children who are viewed as touting against hardened criminals are in significant danger. What specialised supports will be put in place to help any child who testifies against an adult who has groomed or exploited him or her? This important question needs to be answered… 

...Deputy Thomas Gould - I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate and to see this legislation progress to protect children from the harms of criminality. It is no secret that young people are engaging in crime and being groomed into this lifestyle. I would like the Minister of State address the lack of resources for children who engage in criminality and antisocial behaviour who are under the age of 12. Gardaí can do nothing because these children are below the age of criminal responsibility and Tusla does not appear to regard criminality as an area in which it can intervene. This means there is a Catch-22 where gardaí cannot intervene because the children are too young and Tusla thinks it is not its responsibility which creates a gap. I ask the Minister of State to examine that. It leaves children to spiral further into difficult situations and puts them at odds with their communities. It is a complex issue because no one wants to see children of eight, nine or ten years arrested but there needs to be intervention because these children are victims too. We often see different gangs target young children, especially around drugs. They coach them by giving them drugs and then lure the children into criminality.

More needs to be done to educate young people on this and the realities of criminal links to the drug trade. Many young people learn about drug use the wrong way. They learn about it on the streets and from people who try to prey on them. More needs to be done from an educational perspective and, therefore, it is vital that the legislation is coupled with educational supports in schools. We need to ensure that every child has at least one trusted adult, whether at home or in school, to whom they can speak to on this. The legislation is a step forward. It needs to be part of a suite of measures to protect children. If we can get young people into their mid-20s, it will give them an opportunity to get on with their lives. I have dealt with a number of cases in Cork relating to children under 12 years. I have raised it with An Garda Síochána and contacted Tusla. The children are being allowed to get into criminal activity. Who is there to step in? Where is their future? We can see these children now. They are at risk and vulnerable. I would like a lot more resources put into community and youth groups and schools. I take what the Minister of State is trying to do; he is trying to protect children and we support that but we need to go further.

Deputy Carol Nolan - I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important Bill that is in line with the commitment in the programme for Government to criminalise adults who groom children to commit crimes...

[For the full debate, click this link to the Oireachtas website]