Senator Lynn Ruane: I have a good many questions so I hope we will have a second round. I had questions prepared but then created a whole new document as the debate proceeded. I need to get something off my chest as I will not be able to speak for the rest of the time if I do not. I believe criminality and grooming were mentioned. This makes me uncomfortable because it places the idea that there is some sort of risk to young people in that the likelihood of their being involved in criminality is going to become some sort of a red flag for State involvement in communities that are being seriously let down. The criminal people accused of grooming have themselves lived in poverty in most cases. Some of them have been through the care system and have been failed massively by the care system itself. They have been failed by the residential system. Many of them have ended up in the prison system. It is repetitive. I wanted to say that when we talk about grooming, poverty has groomed us all in a sense and that means that those who actually get involved in drug dealing have also been failed. Sometimes I need to say that because I feel as though we are constantly looking for the bogeyman that is creating all these issues when actually he is also part of a failed system in and of itself. I needed to say that because I was getting triggered.

I know that is not the intention. I know they are all reasons that will come into play when we are looking at communities that are heavily impacted by this stuff. However, we need a certain amount of analysis when we think and talk about these issues.

I will start on the voluntary care orders. We have spoken a lot about them but sometimes I need to ask it in my own way to fully to get to the crux of this. Regarding parents receiving independent advice and support, that will not be put on a legislative footing in the general scheme, though it should be, because of the imbalance of power, the dynamic being skewed and Tusla holding so much power within that, but I could be wrong. In addition, some information is needed for children to understand voluntary care agreements. Especially when kids get to teenage years, we can see how let down some teenagers feel because they feel, for example, that their mam gave them or up or their dad did not fight for them. A lot of feedback I have had over the years was that mostly mothers but, in some cases fathers, felt that they had no other option. They felt that the voluntary aspect was not real in the first place. If they refused the voluntary, what happens? There is a threat of court. They think they are doing the right thing by the voluntary care order but it kind of comes back to bite them later on in their relationship with their teenage children and so on. Perhaps we need some understanding for the family of what problems may arise within that.

On the standards of oversight, when it is children in care under voluntary agreements and those in care under the auspice of a care order from the courts, the courts will make certain directions in terms of access, visits, referrals, specialist service and therapeutic supports. We have spoken about the necessities for those supports. We are very focused sometimes on the alternative care piece without ensuring the supports are in place before a care order is even asked for, again setting families up to fail to an extent. Sometimes it can appear that services exist but then there are many barriers or waiting lists to get in, and time ticks on. Before we go to a care agreement, when we look at the types of supports that can be put in place when a child comes under court care and sometimes also privately accessing the supports for the children, is there not a case to be made that a care order should not happen until all the supports are fully in place so that the parents and the children have received the extra resources and supports? The services should be implemented before the care order. I know that cannot be the case if there is an immediate risk to life. I am talking about where there are more long-term issues.

[For the full debate, click here to the Oireachtas website]